Our SongPremieres in Athens
Community Connection Presents A Free Showing Of Jim McKay's New Film
originally published October 10, 2001
Our Song will be screened at the Georgia Theatre on Tuesday, Oct. 16 at 7:30 p.m. McKay will introduce the film beforehand and will answer questions afterward. Following the show, The Possibilities will play Neil Young covers. Call the Community Connection office at 353-2824 for information on how to obtain tickets, which are free, but limited in availability.
In 1987, McKay and R.E.M. lead singer Michael Stipe founded C-Hundred Film Corp., for the creation and promotion of alternative film works. After producing music videos and an award-winning series of public service announcements, McKay in 1989 completed his own feature-length documentary, Lighthearted Nation, which portrays five elderly residents of a Boston nursing home who contribute to the often-hilarious, always-enlightening magazine The Duplex Planet. In 1995, McKay co-wrote, directed, and co-produced Girls Town, which was C-Hundred's first feature narrative film. Girls Town received the Filmmakers Trophy and a Special Jury Prize for Collaboration at the 1996 Sundance Film Festival. The film was released in August, 1996 in the Unites States by October Films.McKay wrote, produced, and directed his second feature, Our Song, in 1999. The film premiered at Sundance in 2000, played at New Directors/New Films, Locarno and Edinburgh film festivals and others and was theatrically released in the United States in May, 2001 by IFC Films.
Our Song is described by C-Hundred as "the story of three teenage girls facing the challenges of growing up in a world filled with uncertainty, risk, and, ultimately, hope. Following Lanisha, Maria and Joycelyn through the hot August streets of Crown Heights, Brooklyn, Our Song explores the ways in which family, friends, and community all compete to shape a young person's life, plans and path, along the way offering a rarely seen glimpse of teenage inner-city life. During the closing weeks of summer, the small moments and dramas that mean nothing and everything to a young girl navigating her way into adulthood start to accumulate. And these girls and their friendships change forever."
Powell Weaver, a young Athens filmmaker, now a freshman at the New York University film school, viewed Our Song and then interviewed Jim McKay for Flagpole at the Time Café on Lafayette Street in lower Manhattan on Friday, Oct. 5.
Jim McKay: There was almost no improv on the set, actually. There were a couple scenes where something wasn't working at the last minute and we just changed a little bit of it, but for the most part it's all pretty scripted.
FP: Where did you start writing the script? What was the first action you had your characters take?
JMc: The very first thing I had was like this idea of friendship. A teenage trio and one of them strays from the group and what is that like, was the initial like kind of thought. So I would just write down little scene ideas, or not even scene ideas but idea ideas. And just compile all these little ideas for story lines or scenes of characters, and everything starts to come together separately so that I figure that out as I go along, really. So that's how it happened, and I wrote a whole first draft of a script that was just about these friends, and then I saw the marching band that was in the film, the Jackie Robinson Steppers, and I went back in and rewrote the script, putting them in the movie. And there were about four drafts of the script after that where I just kept refining it. So I think when we shot it was around the seventh draft or so.
FP: Talking about the band in the movie, it sort of seemed separated from the rest of the girls' lives. You know, outside of band practice they never really talked about it too much, and it wasn't overshadowing everything all the time and didn't turn into an overly righteous or sentimental metaphor. Was it hard to restrain yourself from letting the band totally take over?
JMc: No, not really. You know I think I was lucky that I had written the whole story about the friends beforehand. If I had started with the band, I think you're right: I think it could've really taken over, and what I wanted it to be was more of a backdrop.
FP: Will you talk a little bit about subtlety in filmmaking. You know, a good film seems to always have subtlety. Do you ever worry that if you're too subtle your point won't get across?
JMc: Um, you know that's the kind of stuff you're always balancing and weighing in the writing and then in the directing and then again in the editing. I mean, you have these three different stages to confront that and go like, is it too much, is it too little? Is it just right? And obviously everybody has their own opinions about what too much and too little and just right is. I guess the bigger concern really was, what's the difference between it being where I want it, where I like it, and the audience "getting it" and being fulfilled by it, you know. I always much rather keep things a lot more... quiet and unspoken. Our Song is like an action movie compared to them - I mean I love watching observation documentaries where there's no narrator, there's no dialogue, there's just watching things unfold, really. And in a weird way when I started out I kind of wanted to make something like that. Then I realized more and more, OK you need a story, you need some kind of art, you need a structure. But I try to get away from it as much as I could without completely alienating people.
Like the last shots of the movie: we talked about them for a month, and every time we changed them subtly over and over and over again, you know. The film ends with two very long takes - single shots. And there was all this debate about how long to keep them on first of all, but also on the second of the shots the credits come up a little ways into it, and it was like we had a version where they didn't come up at all until it was over, but that was like a three-minute shot or something, and then we... well what if it was like a one-and-a-half minute shot and we didn't bring 'em up till it was over? And what if we brought 'em in earlier? Every one of those options made a different ending to the film. If the credits came in when Maria was on screen, that kind of made it a little bit more of her story in a weird way - her ending. So those little decisions are constantly there.
But I think American cinema in particular is really, really in a pretty sorry state these days. There's probably a lot of good stuff out there that we don't get to see, because it doesn't get distribution. So I don't want to speak in really general terms, but to me the most interesting stuff we're seeing is coming from places like Iran and France and England when it's not like, you know, The Full Monty 10, which seems to be the trend there. Because I think American society is faster and slicker and more clever and more arrogant and that's where our tendencies go when we make work: who can write the snottiest screenplay, who can prove that they're the cleverest.
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I was on this panel yesterday about filmmaking after 9/11 and Parker Posey was on the panel, and she was great. She said something like, "Why can't we just be a little more quiet? Everybody's always shouting: the movie guy is shouting, commercials are shouting, I think everybody just needs to, like, whisper a little bit." And I thought that was really metaphorically true in terms of film. A good actor can bring you to tears or laughter without saying a word, you know, but a lot of people think that everything has to be shit screamed and that screaming is funny. Screaming is angry.
FP: Have you ever completed a work that you're totally happy with, totally satisfied with, or is there always something you would like to change?
JMc: In the work that I direct, I feel like I know what was possible with my films and I feel like I did everything that was possible to make them. I love them. I mean, I'm totally happy with them. There's absolutely things I go, ah, that day, I remember so and so didn't show up, and we had to shoot it this way, and I wish we had better coverage, but ultimately, I don't dwell on that, like you get over it and you go, "... now this is what we have."
FP: When you make a film do you focus more on the form or the content of the film?
JMc: I think it's pretty clear that for me content is more important, but I don't want to give the impression that I don't pay attention to form. I think it's easy to assume that I don't. You know, people are wowed by a film like Magnolia where, you know, oh, it's an eight minute steadycam shot that opens the film and blah blah blah blah blah, and it's all about style, and that's cool. I like Magnolia, but then I think they make an assumption that because we didn't have steadycam, that what we did just didn't really take any thinking. You know what I mean: just because it's simple doesn't mean it's simple.
My key thing is how do you get people in the audience to connect with these characters as intimately as possible and to understand them and learn from them and then have empathy for them. To me that doesn't come through cinematic tricks; it comes through the writing and the performance, you know?
FP: I think you touched on this a little bit before talking about how you develop your characters, but when you begin to make a film and write a script do you start generally with an idea and then develop characters and scenes to convey that idea, or do you start more with characters and then let them say whatever they have to say?
JMc: Yeah, like I said I think it's both. You know at some point early in the process of writing this I had probably a little paper that said, "Lanisha, 16, Cuban mom, black dad,
ambitious, smart, blah blah blah. Maria, 15, etc.," you know, but those things changed all the time. Then you write a scene and you go, I
really like this scene, but it doesn't really make sense with this part of the character. Well, maybe I like the scene better than that part of the character, so I'll change the character a little bit. So you're constantly tweaking. I don't remember at what point I had the characters as opposed to... I think I definitely start with just general ideas and scenes first. But then quickly obviously you need main characters to inhabit those scenes, and you figure that out really quickly. With Girls Town I kinda had an idea for this whole movie, like what is the concept of the movie? This happens and this happens and then this is how it ends. But now I think much more about circumstances and vibes and situations, and then I build the story from there.
I'm working on a script right now; it's kind of an Our Song companion piece. It's about a young boy from the same neighborhood who is in his senior summer, and he's been accepted to Morehouse for the fall. And my complete idea for the movie is what is what is his summer like, knowing that he's getting out of the projects in Brooklyn in three months and going to this place that is definitely safer and more productive. What is going on in his head? That's how I'm starting it. I don't know how it starts, this first scene. I don't know the last scene. I just have this kind of idea and then move from there.
FP: What are your feelings on repetition in filmmaking? Do you feel you always have to do something new, that's never been seen before?
JMc: That's interesting. Personally I'm interested in films that are fresh and that can show me a story or characters that I haven't seen before. I don't think there's anything wrong with repeating.
Ron Shelton makes movies about sports. That's his interest. I don't know all his movies, but that's how I know him. I don't think there's anything wrong with that; that's what he does. I think he probably makes other movies, too, but I think he's really interested in sports, and so he makes these movies about sports, and you know to me that's not repetition; that's not necessarily telling the same story over and over again, either. I've only made two films; I hope to make many more, and I don't know what characters and what subjects I'm gonna deal with in the future, but I think a lot of people instinctively said, "Oh, you're repeating yourself with this film," just because I made two films that feature teenage girls. But to me they're a world apart. I could make five more films about teenage girls and to me they would be completely different. The idea that they only have one story for these characters is really absurd, and we've seen thousands of movies about teenage boys and no one ever says, oh, we're sick of that story. Whenever I work on something I want to learn something from it. I produced a movie last year called Stranger Inside that was on HBO, and it was about a young woman in prison, and I had very little exposure to the prison complex, you know, and in the process of the film I learned really a lot about why people end up in prison and what it's like when they're there and what kind of lives they lead when they're in prison. That was a fulfilling experience to me, and I think it was a fulfilling experience to watch the film for someone who doesn't know that story.
I wouldn't make a story about a struggling screenwriter. I think we've seen that movie a million times, and I'm not interested in that movie, so I definitely want to work on projects that are entering some kind of new territory.
FP: Have you ever been scared to present a film or part of one of your films to an audience?
JMc: Never at a film festival for filmmakers, no. I showed Our Song to a conference on teenage girls, and it was people from the welfare department of Philadelphia, the education system, the juvenile justice system, all these experts. I was definitely intimidated at that screening, and they seemed to like it a lot, which chilled me out. But then when kids watch them, I get really nervous because they can really answer, like, is this real or not. But then there's a whole further problem which is that they might think it's real but they still might not like it that much. I'm ready for that, definitely, and I feel like in one way I want them to see these films, and I want them to like them, but I don't expect them to, because the cinematic language is totally different to them. They're used to films like The Matrix and stuff; that's what they like. So I don't think this is... I think there's a select group of young kids who watch the films and go, "Wow, that's me," or like, "Gosh I've never seen this part of my story in a movie," and I hope for a couple kids who have seen it, one of those little special teenage experiences where you kind of feel not alone or whatever, but at the same time I also realize there are a lot of kids who are like, "Harumph," or whatever. And what are you gonna do? I could make the movies - I was going to say I could make 'em like MTV videos, but I couldn't do that: (a) because I don't have the money with the budgets to do that, but really (b) because I don't want to do it. There's this constant struggle: well what do I want to do politically? I want to make these stories about young people that are important, and I want them to reach young people. But what I want to do artistically, I want to make these kind of more artistic, documentary type things. And the two don't match. So you make your choices along the way.
FP: You seem to have a fascination with youth. What do you think is the most appealing thing about youth and young people and working with them and telling stories about them?
JMc: I think adults don't understand them, to such a large degree, and that we forget so quickly what it was like to be young, and so most media is made by adults, and I personally find it really condescending and inaccurate. I know when I was young I really was starved for stories that I did feel like respected me as a young person. Although I think kids go to films like Dangerous Minds and end up liking them in some way or another, I think part of it is because there's really no choice. There's not that many other options, and I don't know what the deal is but I just think that kids are seen as the enemy by adult society, by the government, by the media, and I think it's important to show sides of that. I know people who have seen Our Song and said to me afterward - adults - "wow, you know, I definitely look at kids differently now. Kids who used to intimidate me or kids who I felt were being obnoxious or whatever, I think I understand them a little bit more now, and I think that's cool."
FP: Have you ever considered yourself to be a shy person?
JMc: Not really, but the very first thing I did was a documentary, and since then I love documentaries. Since then I've tried to work on a couple and I've realized it's not really my thing, because I really like to watch people without them really knowing that I'm watching them, as opposed to being in their presence with a camera in their face. I learned a long time ago that I'd much rather savor a moment than take a picture of it and have it later. I was trying to take a lot of street photographs for a while, when I was young, but I realized I'm missing this as a person, as in life. I'm missing these moments because I'm spending so much time trying to get a photo of them. I'd much rather just dig them. So I think that doing fiction, you get to just watch and then go back and write it. And then make it, whereas with a documentary you've got to be there all the time, and I think part of that is like, I saw this marching band. I really loved them; I called them up; I went out, I met them, and everything was fine. I don't really have a problem making new friends.
FP: From what you've seen, how much of success in the film industry - and I guess by "success" I mean just being where you want to be - is based on talent and how much is based on luck or personality or other factors?
JMc: Wow, what an interesting question. Well, I would say real success depends on what you call success. The people who are really making money in the business mostly are not making it because they're talented. They're making it because they can do something very specific that brings in money. The really talented people are really struggling. I've seen more great films that have never come out almost than I've seen great films in the movie theater, which is sad. I do think, though, that if you're really good and you persevere - and what does good mean? I don't know, but I think if you're really, really talented and your work is special, you probably will have a harder time at first but eventually, eventually you'll find a place where someone's making your material. The talentless makers, usually their first film sets them up for life. Not always, I mean Steven Soderberg's a really talented filmmaker, and his first film also kind of set him up; that's a rare occasion. John Seles struggled for a long time before he really got... Kevin Smith's not a very talented filmmaker, and after his first very untalentless movie he was set for a career to do whatever he wanted to do, because he made something that spoke to an audience that is gonna buy movie tickets, you know. Whereas Christopher Munch, who's made three small films right now, Ira Sachs, who made a movie called The Delta which is really gorgeous - you actually look just like the lead character, it's so funny. He has not made a followup film yet - that's four years ago. Katherine Dieckmann made her first feature a couple years ago, and she hasn't made a second one yet.
I know so many great filmmakers who have made really, really wonderful first films and it takes them years to make the second one. But you just gotta hang in there and stick with it, and I think if you keep doing it, however you have to do it, eventually someone's gonna back you up. I paid out of my own pocket for Girls Town, and when we made Our Song I put money into it and we got four other investors to put small amounts of money into it and we did it ourselves. If no one wants to make my next movie, I'll do that again, but I'm hoping someone will want to make my next movie, because I think I prove now that they're worth funding. But maybe not. And some people it takes one movie, some people it takes three, some people it takes five, some people never find the backing, but you always find support of some sort. Christopher Munch's films are great. He's made three of them now, but it hasn't really gotten easier for him because he's stuck to his guns, and he continues to make really challenging, interesting, smart work. The next one might be different. The next one, hopefully he'll get more support, and maybe the next one full support or whatever, so you just keep moving. But I think our culture now views filmmakers as celebrities, since the post-Tarantino days. An outgoing, funny person; a good looking person, a social person, they have a better shot at succeeding, because they'll go to the parties, and they'll talk bullshit, and they'll look good on a magazine cover, and whatever. I mean in theory. I don't know. Here we are doing an interview with the director, and I was going to say what's really important is the movie. We're so fascinated by the process, when what really matters is the result of the process.
FP: Why do you think we are so fascinated with the process?
JMc: I think because it's become so democratic in some ways. The idea that you can make a movie for 16 thousand dollars with Clerks and then video and the idea that anyone can go to the store and basically buy a 500 dollar camera, 1000 dollar camera, and buy some tapes and make something, leads everybody to want to be a filmmaker. Not everybody but, you know, I mean there's good things about it and bad things about it. I remember I had spent a lot of time in Los Angeles on a project once, and it drove me crazy because every time I went into a café or something everyone at every table was talking about movies. And then I came back to New York and I was like, oh, New York's kind of getting like that, too. And then I remember going to Athens for a week and I was in this bar and two people at the bar were talking about this script, and I was like, what the fuck is going on here? Part of me says that's great. I mean, that's a really great thing. We need stories from all over the place and the more the merrier. The best are going to stick out. And then there's something as a filmmaker in a selfish way that's a little protective. No one says, "Damn, I really always wanted to do heart surgery. I think I'll just go down to the hospital and they'll let me go to work on someone's heart." No, you go to school, you learn. No one says, "Ah, I've always wanted to be a banker." And then they walk into the bank and someone gives them millions of dollars to be in charge of.
Well, directing is not easy. It's a craft; it's a skill. And every once in a while someone who's never done it and knows nothing about it does something that's really great and fresh, and that's cool, but more often than not, the people who don't really know what they're doing, it shows. And so it's kind of insulting, the idea that anyone can make a movie, because I don't really feel like anyone can. But again it's frustrating, because part of that spirit is what brings great projects to life: that spirit of "I can do this, too" has been responsible for some really great stuff.
I think the idea that, "Wow I have a story to tell and I can maybe be a part of this thing," and people think it's glamorous, people have it in the back of their minds that "Ooh I'm gonna go to openings, and I'm gonna see, you know, Uma Thurman or whatever: I think that's a big part of why people are so into it, and we're obsessed with celebrity. We're obsessed with money and celebrity, and so now everyone in the country knows the opening weekend box office of all the top 10 movies, a totally irrelevant piece of knowledge in general but it's like all of a sudden important, and what's unfortunate is that this great interest and obsession with movies has not really made it, has not really opened up the door to alternative visions and small movies that much. It's just made for a lot more people that are interested in those kind of little big movies, it's still Pulp Fiction and the hip little, big little ones.
FP: Why do you make films?
JMc: Because I can (laughing). I never wanted to be a filmmaker when I was young. I got into it very, very gradually. I make 'em, I think, because I love to watch them. And watching them made me interested in possibly making them, and then starting to make them made me interested in the process, and then getting better at making them... every time I work I feel like I get a little better, and that, I think, is what keeps me going. I go, "Wow, you know, I like Girls Town a lot." I was very happy with it. Then I made Our Song, and I was like, "Wow, this movie's so much better." I really feel like I got better at this, I got better at that, and I know on my next movie I'm gonna hopefully feel the same way. I'm gonna become a better director. And that, I think, is part of what keeps you going, is this challenge. And then it's also really fulfilling on a personal level. I made more new friends on Our Song than anything I've taken a part in in a really long time. How many people in Athens who live near downtown or whatever have literally never gone down by where the projects are and spent any time? A lot. Probably because they don't have a friend who lives there or there's not a restaurant they're going to go to, whatever. I had no contact with Crown Heights, Brooklyn. I'd never been there. There's no movie theater there for me to go to. There's no restaurant. I have no friends there. But I did this thing where it put me there, and I learned about this whole community of people and this place that I would never have known about, and it's right in my back yard. And people from the movie learned about my neighborhood. I developed friends from the film, and they'd come over to my house and we'd go and hang out downtown or whatever. So, it was a life fulfilling experience.
I don't know what else I would be doing if I weren't making films: maybe teaching or something like that, but it's great job.
You're working your ass off, and there's nothing else going on in your life, and you don't sleep too much, but then you have all this between time. It's very non-nine-to-five, wear whatever you want, so it's a very independent way of life. It's very hard to pay the bills, but I'd rather struggle like that than be tied down.
WHAT: Jim McKay's Our Song
WHERE: Georgia Theatre
WHEN: Tuesday, October 16, 7:30 p.m.
HOW MUCH: FREE! (Tickets required)
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